We sat backstage with Phil Anselmo (Pantera, Down, Superjoint Ritual) and his band and ran the gamut from Pantera and their influence on the music scene to various aspects of his new solo album, Walk Through Exits Only, his upcoming horror festival, next year’s autobiography, and a hard hitting discussion of DOMINATION as a way of life.
Moe:
Welcome back to Philly. So, I saw on one of your promo videos you said, ‘Philly, we got a lot of history!’ What’s up with that?
Phil:
Been playing Philadelphia since 1990. Now that’s what I call history, Jack.
Moe:
Speaking about 1990, I was thinking about how “Philip H. Anselmo” seems kinda weird to me. I’m so used to calling you Phil for all these years that I feel like I know you.
Phil:
I still go by Phil.
Moe:
I was thinking about back (to the early 90s) when my friend Franco called me up one night and he was like ‘Moe, I got this great tape (for you to check out)!’ It was Cowboys From Hell. And that moment really changed the way I listened to music. But then again, thinking back, I was also listening to Stryper! [laughter]
Moe:
From the time Pantera rose to fame, from wearing spandex to selling out tours across the world, when did you really figure out that Pantera had such a profound influence on the music scene?
Phil:
Hmm, I not so sure. I think I was so close and involved in my own career and the Pantera-thing that I wasn’t absolutely aware of what was going on with anybody else; outside of certain metal bands and hardcore bands that I did follow. I know that our sound got aped kinda early by certain bands..
Moe:
How’d that feel?
Phil:
At first it was like, [grumbling] ‘Wow’. But you know, knowing all the shit that I know now, I had my influences. Just like Dimebag and everybody, the whole Pantera group. Just like this band (The Illegals). We’ve all grown up with all our own influences. So we see it as that you’ve got to take it as a compliment. And if you see it in any other way then there’s other ways of expressing it; whether it be displeasure or being actually bored with it. It’s been going on for a long time now. So at this point I say, ‘Go for it young sons and musicians out there. Do what the fuck you gotta do.’
Moe:
Well you’re always a champion for the underground…
Phil:
Always.
Moe:
Which is awesome, man. The whole scene gives props to you for that. Now, going away from Pantera… You have the opportunity to make the profound impact on your own with your first solo album. When I first listened to the album I made a concerted effort not to make judgment on what the music was; not to pigeonhole it. I know so many music-media people get into, ‘uh, it sounds like Slayer, or…’
Phil:
They have to. That’s their way of equating anything.
Moe:
They have to; but I don’t think they should. I honestly think it’s a kind of insult. You’ve got your own music. You’re not being someone else, you’re being yourself.
Phil:
Yeah. We don’t sound like anybody else.
Moe:
So, how did it feel to finally have total control over the entire process? Because I know you’re doing everything front to back; you’re doing your own effects… How’d it feel to have such control of everything?
Phil:
Control? Well, you gotta think back. I’ve always written riffs for every band I’ve been in. And certain bands I’ve written the whole fucking song. So with this band, when I first started writing stuff, I realized that Marzi (Montazeri) was going to be my guitar player so I wanted to write to his strengths. So with all that said, I had my hand in writing all the songs, but I couldn’t do it without these guys… because he’s got a lot of trademark elements and a lot of sonic things that he does that I think are very, very different than your average heavy metal player; what ever that is. I don’t know anymore, there’s so many different sub-sub-genres anymore and there are so many great and talented players out there. But I think he’s very unique. I think that Blue (Gonzalez) with his drumming…
“So with this band, when I first started writing stuff, I realized that Marzi (Montazeri) was going to be my guitar player so I wanted to write to his strengths.”
Philip Anselmo
Moe:
[To Blue] You guys started to work together when you were really young, right?
Phil:
He’s still really young. Look at him!
Moe:
How old are you, twenty-two?
Blue:
I just turned twenty-three July 28th.
Moe:
23? Young buck, man.
Phil:
Phil: Young Blood.
Moe:
That’s good though.
Phil:
Phil: You need it on the skins!
Blue:
I met Philip when I was 18 when we signed to Housecore Records. Maybe a year and a half after that or two years down the line was when he really needed a drummer and it was suggested that I do it by Bruce Corbitt. Pretty much from there, he started pushing me further as a drummer and as a player. And hopefully we keep going, man. This tour is going great. And now (the goal) is to do more, to expand, to grow as a band. It’s pretty fucking badass. I’m absolutely honored to be here and be a part of it.
Moe:
So, you were talking about sonically, there’s a lot of intricacies with the album. I don’t know if a lot of people pick up on certain things, if they just listen to it one and [snaps fingers] that’s their quick judgment. But you really went deep into it. I’ve listened to it on headphones, and I have real good headphones, and I was like, ‘damn, this very layered’. How much of a concerted effort to you put into it to really make sure that it was layered and not a one dimensional kind of album?
Phil:
Phil: First and foremost, you have to understand even basic songwriting. That’s one of my strong points, always has been, organizing the song; no matter what band I’ve been with. Once you understand basic songwriting, then you can fuck up songwriting. Really, in my opinion, there’s no wrong way to right music or to make or create music. But all and all, I’m big, big advocate of hooks and catchy lyrics, so to speak, and whatnot. So I wanted, coming from a more hardcore attitude, Discharge, or Agnostic Front, I wanted those big hooks. I wanted the memorable lines in the songs. Over the top of this frantic riffing and whatnot. And I think we got that; as far as anything that’s on the record. That is something that grows on you with every listen. The more you listen the more you pick up.
Phil:
Each listen you pick up on something different. That is very purposeful. Everything that’s on that record was there without freestyle and without fucking improvisation. It was very, very purposeful. So keep an open mind. If there’s listeners out there, watchers out there, anyone picking up on this: The more you listen to it, the more you are going to realize that there are really, really structured songs. There’s even vocal melodies; I’m not just screaming. There’s subtle what I call ‘anti-singing’ vocal melodies and even vocal harmonies. When you get down to layering and things like that, people like to use that word but it isn’t really layering. I think that a lot of that has to do with (gesturing to Marzi) his style of playing and what he brings to the table. And I shouldn’t even really be talking about it, it really should be him, so here… Marzoo! [handing mic to Marzi] Open up their eyes a little bit to the guitar world.
Moe:
Please do.
Marzi:
Well, in the guitar realm of it, it’s backing up Philip’s whole perspective of the album, his vision of it. It’s songwriting like he said but it’s completely different than the norm. So we helped Philip re-write the book, man. We helped him; but it’s his vision. It’s his sound and the way he structured the songs. All I came in to do was basically translate what he was hearing (in his head). He’d tell me and we’d sit there and we’d play; until you know what feels right.
Phil:
Phil: Yeah but the freedom was always there for your guitar leads and all that stuff. The sonic scraping and stuff..
Marzi:
Absolutely. He opened the door for me to do it.
Stephen:
The way he uses his effects, he is able to create huge layers just on one track. Just one amp. So a lot of what you are hearing, you’ll probably hear live in a set. The music guitar can sound big.
Moe:
Well that’s what I was noticing when I was listening to it on different things… Through speakers or on the headphones. On the headphones, it really stuck out to me. I’ve listened to the album a good ten times and I was just picking up one thing after another. It’s kind of like watching a movie, you know, how you see different nuances in a movie… It’s the same kind of thing with the music. That’s what I think is kind of erasing genre lines a bit. I’m not pigeonholing or anything, but it sort of erases it because it’s all over the place.
Marzi:
This thing followed absolutely no formula. It created itself. It morphed itself to its own thing. And we watched it develop into what is was. It was beautiful. Phil would call me and read me the lyrics to ‘Music Media’ and I’d be on the other end just freaking out. This is after we did the music. So it just kept on flowering. But it did what is was supposed to do. He definitely oversaw it and I’m very pleased with it, man.
Moe:
You should be happy… It came out great. I know you have a lot of people asking you about ‘Music Media Is My Whore’. I’m not asking about it, because I know that you probably get it every single interview; but it doesn’t really have anything to do with music media…
Phil:
Phil: It doesn’t at all. That’s part of the absurd sense of humor…
Moe:
I think you have a sense of humor that doesn’t get picked up all the time.
Phil:
Phil: Nah. Not at all. (sarcastically)
Marzi:
It’s there.
Blue:
This is one of the funniest dudes you’ll ever meet in your life. He’s hilarious.
Moe:
I’ve seen videos.
Phil:
Phil: Yeah, but to live it 24-7 is kinda ridiculous after a while. If anyone takes offense out there that is part of the music media then (singing) you must feel guilty about something you wrote somewhere along the fucking line!
“If anyone takes offense out there that is part of the music media then (singing) you must feel guilty about something you wrote somewhere along the fucking line!”
Philip Anselmo
Moe:
Exactly. They need to take their balls out of their purses and just man up and get over themselves.
Phil:
Phil: Agreed.
Moe:
It’s pretty ridiculous.
Marzi:
You have to look way past the title of the song.
Phil:
Phil: That was just a jab at those motherfuckers. As journalists, you can write objective pieces, real pieces, or opinionated pieces. So if it stings you then maybe you should’ve worn a different shirt the day you fucking wrote something about The Kid. And I’ll tell you, you’re correct, the lyrics once again have absolutely fucking nothing to do with fucking media at all and really it’s more of a [sic] procalation, PROCLAMATION… See. It’s been a hard, long couple of days. Wow! It’s a proclamation!
Moe:
So, we’ve (Moe Train’s Tracks) been around for 8 years and we’ve pretty much used ‘Domination’ as our motto; or our proclamation I would say. I’m not speaking about Domination the song, I’m speaking about Domination as a way of life. We say, “Excelsior doesn’t fucking lose!” It’s one of those things where your aim is straight forward. How has Domination played a factor in your life? And does the tattoo on your head, “Strength”, does that remind you of it every day?
Phil:
Phil: Hmm. Well, it takes a lot of strength to get up every day out of this creaky fucking carcass and fucking get the job done. No matter what it is, no matter how small or how tremendous, I think that right now at this point in all of our careers, especially us [clears his throat] older guys, when the motherfucking door opens you step through that motherfucker and you seize it; and you do it. If you sign up for it then you fucking finish the job! This is something that we’ve been talking about doing, Marzi and I, for twenty fucking years almost. And finally that particular door got picked and kicked down. And now we’re in Philadelphia sitting here talking about this record that was three years in the making. So that right there in itself shows perseverance, first and foremost, and extreme focus.
Phil:
You know, I could have turned into an overweight goddamn drug addict and went down the toilet many, many fucking years ago, Jack. But, number one, that ain’t how the story is supposed to end. And, number two, it wasn’t gonna happen anyway. So these days when I see that little window of opportunity, either I’m going to really think about it before I jump through the motherfucker, or I’m just gonna kick through it. And once I kick through it, and I’m surrounded by the right guys, I got the right team all the way down to the road crew, the fucking management, to everybody, and that’s a gigantic support group of talented motherfuckers, there’s no place to go really but up; or at least almost vertically. We can’t be horizontal for too long.
Moe:
So, what’s the definition of Domination for you?
Phil:
Taking hold of every fucking goddamn hour that you are wide awake. And we you’re asleep, you better be dreaming about the goddamn future and how to fucking do it right.
Moe:
I’ll tell you what, you’re very clear and on-point right now. You’re what 8 years clean now?
Phil:
10.
Moe:
10? Congratulations, brother.
Phil:
Thank you, brother.
Moe:
These days you’re prolific. You’re producing all kinds of shit. You’re working on your film festival. How’s that going?
Phil:
It’s always a work in progress but I think we got all the bands sorted. An awesome, awesome gaggle of bands. A very versatile bunch of bands. I couldn’t be happier there. Even though, believe me, there’s so many bands that I wanted, but, you know, you just gotta work around everybody’s schedule. But, either way, this year’s bands are great.
Phil:
The films that we got, the older classics and whatnot, are fucking fantastic. And the special guests are fucking great, man. Jim Van Bebber, from here in the States, from the Manson family fame. Jörg Buttgereit from Germany from Nekromantik fame. He’ll be showing a lot of his stuff on 35mm. And then the GREAT Coffin Joe from Brazil is coming down. He’s gonna show some of his stuff as well as display some art that I even myself have not seen. So all that’s exciting, it’s amazing. But it is a film festival first and foremost. And these guys have been around me obviously a whole lot the last few years. Over the last ten months, I’ve received a lot of submissions from what I would call ‘lesser known directors’, because they’re not amateurs, they’re just fucking lesser known. And I get to pick through them and pick the ‘Best Of’. We got some awesome fucking submissions. And for a guy like myself who has zero aspirations to be a director, or a fucking actor, a guy who just loves to watch horror films from any decade you can point at, that’s very encouraging for me. It shows there are folks out there who really give a fuck about the genre itself and don’t want to do paint-by-numbers, teenagers-in-the-woods fucking movies, all that bullshit. Or even a remake; that shit’s boring. Do your own fucking thing goddammit!
Moe:
Like Rob Zombie remaking films…
Phil:
Nah, Rob’s done a really good job. I love Rob very, very much; he’s a good friend. When you’re starting out a career like he did from music to film and you get the opportunity to do a remake of Halloween, I think that’s a special thing.
Moe:
So you wouldn’t jump at that if you had the opportunity?
Phil:
Uh, if I wanted to be a director but I don’t. But I think I can see the logic behind it; so I’m not picking really at him. It’s the Black Christmas’. It’s the Don’t Be Afraid Of The Dark’s. Etc, etc. There’s some really SHITTY movies out there. And we I say “found-footage” movies, The Blair Witch Project, it’s a pile of shit, it’s terrible, it’s the worst movie I’ve ever seen. And really they’re ripping off a movie that I’m showing that’s a whole lot older, a whole lot better, by light-years a better film, called Cannibal Holocaust. To me that’s the fucking greatest found-footage fuckin’ extreme film/art that’s out there, that’s ever (been) made.
“I’m still struggling a bit with actual song titles but they’re recorded, they’re ready to go; except we need to mix the fuckers which is always [groans] a chore.”
Philip Anselmo
Phil:
Either way, I’m looking forward to the Horrorfest and to really turning on the paying customer, the people that actually come to this fucking event. I can’t wait for them to see these fucking films, man. (Especially) from the lesser known directors. Because, I think that most people would agree, that horror films and heavy metal music kinda somehow go hand and hand together. There’s a lot of people that love both. I don’t know how else to describe that particular phenomenon, but it just happens to be the case. So for me to show people these films, it’s like turning on a group of friends to a new record that you’re into or this new band that you fucking love. It kinda goes hand to hand in that aspect. I can’t wait for people to see these fuckin’ films.
Moe:
Talking about music, you guys have a couple of songs coming out during the Fest’, right? Were they written specifically for the Fest’ or were they songs that came out that you were like, ‘That would go well with…’
Phil:
When we… didn’t mean to interrupt you but…
Moe:
No worries.
Phil:
When we sat down to write, we went through many different songs and probably came out of the sessions with 16-17 things. Some things are still a work in progress, some things are this, that, and the other, you know… Walk Through Exits Only felt cohesive. Those eight songs felt very, very cohesive with each other. The two songs that we did with Warbeast on the War of the Gargantuas split, those two songs felt cohesive with each other. These two new songs that are coming out in October are way different, WAY DIFFERENT, than anything that anybody’s heard yet from myself and the solo band. I think they go together very well. I’m still struggling a bit with actual song titles but they’re recorded, they’re ready to go; except we need to mix the fuckers which is always [groans] a chore. It’s just finding time to do all that; but we will find time to do it. Mixing, mastering; done. Two new fucking expressions of extremities from me and the boys. So, I’m looking forward to that.
Moe:
Do you feel like you’re spreading yourself thin?
Phil:
Yes. But at this point in my life, if I have to I have to.
Moe:
Dominate.
Phil:
You got to! Once that opportunity of window is wide open, or smashed open, and you’re flung through it askew, if the work is there and it’s meant for you,you better fucking do it ’cause there ain’t nobody else that’s gonna do it for you.
Moe:
Actually, you have your autobiography coming out next year, right?
Phil:
Yes I do.
Moe:
How in the hell are you getting that shit done with all the other stuff, man?!?
Phil:
A lot of sleepless nights Skype-ing and fucking homework, Jack. And soul-searching, and all that shit that comes with it.
Moe:
Listen guys, we owe you a huge debt of gratitude. 23 years I’ve been listening to you guys. Incredible. Honestly, I was extremely excited. All of our fans were extremely excited for us to come talk to you guys. Phil… Personally, for me it’s an honor.
Phil:
Thank you, brother.
Moe:
Absolutely.
Phil:
But remember that it goes both ways. Without motherfuckers like you, assholes like me would be fucking zero. And to any fans out there, it’s up to the fucking people what they like and what they dislike. I think Marzi said it best the other day: “I’m not a religious man,” I’m taking the words out of his mouth but really it holds true for myself, “I’m not a religious man but I do feel blessed.” I do feel blessed with this life and the opportunities that have been laid in front of me; and for the common sense, or whatever it is, that has got me to this point. Talent, common sense, mistakes, and learning from those fucking mistakes. And picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and saying ‘Let’s get back on the horse, Jack!’ And I don’t mean heroin! (laughs)… No more!
Moe:
(Laughs) Good for you! Guys, thank you very much.
