Moe Train sits down with Dustin and Chris of Walls of Jericho in a backstage room at Mayhem Fest, right after a set that ended with security standing in the crowd, which had never happened before. The new album is about two weeks old, written and recorded in roughly four months, against a deadline that stressed the whole band out. They talk the message, hardcore versus metal, Derek Grant's short run on drums, calling a telephone hotline to find shows, and what The American Dream is actually about. What follows is the full conversation, word for word, from the remastered tape.
Moe:
Hey, we're sitting back in some, I don't know where the hell we're sitting. Weird room. It looks like, it looks like this is where they, like, film weird porno. Like, theatrical porno. This is the Phil Donahue backstage area. We're sitting with Dustin and Chris from Walls of Jericho. How's it going, guys? Great set today.
Chris:
Thank you.
Moe:
You guys tore it up. The crowd was definitely very, very into it.
Dustin:
So sweet. Yeah.
Moe:
How's your tour been so far?
Chris:
It's been great. Yeah, lots of kids, lots of circle pits.
Dustin:
Yeah, lots of moshing.
Chris:
Today was weird, actually. Today was weird, because they put security in the crowd. That's never happened before. Not that, like, the security were, like, being a bunch of meatheads.
Dustin:
But were they being dicks?
Chris:
Yeah, kind of, really. The crowd calmed. I would say, yeah.
Moe:
Nice shot with that. It's like an oxymoron. Oh, exactly. We're at a metal show, you guys gotta calm down. Okay. Yeah, a little crazy. Yeah, I was, no, I was in the photo pit during you guys' set, and I was getting clocked by the security guys. Jesus Christ. It was, like, nobody around. So, yeah. But congratulations on your new album.
Chris:
Thank you.
Moe:
That just came out. How was the recording process for you guys?
Chris:
I don't know. It's stressful, really.
Dustin:
Yeah.
Chris:
Yeah, it was, we had a deadline. We had to meet the deadline, and that just stresses me the fuck out.
Moe:
Well, how long did it take?
Chris:
It took, from the beginning of writing it, I think, to recording, and how many months was it? March, April, May. So we started, like, we had some ideas, like, floating around and stuff, right? The actual, like, getting together and putting the songs together, so it was, like, three months of putting it together, and then a month of recording on top of that.
Moe:
How, what's your, what goes through your mind? I mean, it's been, what, two weeks since it's been out?
Chris:
Yeah, about that.
Moe:
So what goes through your mind the first month, month or two, when a new album comes out?
Chris:
I just hope it sells. That's really what goes through my mind. I hope people get into it.
Dustin:
I don't even care.
Chris:
Seriously, don't care. Just put it out for yourselves, or as long as it comes out cool. Yeah, I don't care if it sells. Yeah, because if people, well, I care if people steal it, too. That's cool. I just want people to get it. I don't, I don't really care about the selling thing.
Moe:
So, you know, the internet has become a huge, huge component in the publicity of bands these days. I mean, it's, it's changed the face of the music industry. How do you feel about, you know, sharing versus album sales versus live shows?
Chris:
Um, I really, I don't really care how people get the music, as long as they get it, and read the lyrics, and sing along, and come to the show. Like, there was a kid that I met the other day that straight up was, like, man, I heard you guys, and then I downloaded everything you ever did. You're, like, my new favorite band. And he was at the show, right, bought a shirt. And if, if he never would have heard us, like, in passing somewhere, and then downloaded us, like, he probably never would have looked out for the show or anything. So, even though he stole all the music, he came out and bought a shirt, and paid to get in at the show, you know. So it still helps us.
Moe:
Yeah. So, besides that, the message. The message of the music. What's your overall message?
Highlight
Chris:
The overall message? I don't know. We don't really have, like, an overall message. It's more, I would just say, like, we don't want fighting at our shows. Be positive with your life, right? No, just don't be a dick. Really, just don't be, be aware of your surroundings, and then the clock in the back of the head. I mean...
Dustin:
Now you can get clocked in the back of the head, I guess. Oh, yeah.
Chris:
Sometimes you get clocked in the back of the head by accident, and then you could be, like, dude, I'm sorry. I hit you in the back of the head. Or that guy could apologize to you. And sometimes you get clocked in the back of the head...
Dustin:
Yeah, being a dick.
Chris:
Yeah, I mean...
Moe:
What we do, we cover a lot of quote-unquote indie shows, and it's a different scene here. I mean, I've covered other metal shows before and stuff like that. But how do you guys describe the metal scene, in comparison, and everything in it?
Highlight
Chris:
You know, like, you know, we're in the metal scene when we do tours like this, but we're a hardcore band, right? And there's a huge difference between going to hardcore shows, real hardcore shows, and going to, like, a metal show. Maybe hardcore shows, there's a little bit more of a bond between the people there, even though it's a little smaller. There's a little bit more respect amongst each other. Where, like, metal shows, you know, everybody's just kind of hanging out, and trying to look cool, and, you know, combing their hair or whatever, right? And it's really, what really sucks is when the two come together. There's, like, that fight between, like, the hardcore and the metal kids. Yeah, that's what really sucks. That's, that's the scene that we hate, and that's the constant battle that we're always going through, because we come from, like, a hardcore background, where, you know, you should take care of one another. But we play these metal tours, and that's not, right, the mentality of the crowd a lot of times.
“And if, if he never would have heard us, like, in passing somewhere, and then downloaded us, like, he probably never would have looked out for the show or anything.”
Walls of Jericho
Moe:
You guys have had a lot of, a lot of different people in your band. That, you know, the drumming has changed over the years. And I said Derek Grant from Suicide Machines, right?
Chris:
Yeah, for brief, what, for four months, I guess. I don't know how long it was. It was, it was definitely less than a year. We wrote, like, a song with him, and then we cut the song anyways. Yeah, not that the song sucked, but, like, Derek's an amazing person, amazing drummer, and he's good to work with. Pretty much what happened was, we needed a drummer at the time, and we were all, like, friends, all from the same area and stuff, in Detroit. Yeah, and he, I think Mike had talked to him, our other guitar player talked to him, because he heard he was just sitting around doing nothing. And we're, like, yo, we need a drummer. Why don't you come and help us out? And he was down, because he's, he's, like, a super fan of Mike's old band, from a long, long time ago, because Mike's old. Yeah. So Derek, like, came out and, like, played drums for us, and we did, like, some festivals, right, some shows and stuff. And then, but he told us, like, from day one, like, he'd been sitting around, and he was, like, if I get an offer to go do something else, like, my trio... Yeah, if I get an offer, he's, like, I gotta go. I can't, like, do this. Like, even though he's, like, a punk rock dude, he'd, like, drumming's his life, you know. And he's such a phenomenal drummer that, no matter what, he was gonna end up doing something big.
Moe:
Are you guys Suicide Machines fans, or what?
Chris:
Oh, yeah, I am. Yeah, it's all good. Rest in peace, man.
Dustin:
Yeah, good dude.
Chris:
They were my, they're probably one of my favorite... Destruction by Definition was probably one of my favorites, besides Operation Ivy. It was probably the punk ska album that...
Moe:
That record is actually in my CD player in my car right now, and, yeah, it never leaves. What's your favorite track off it?
Moe:
That's dope shit. That's fucking classic right there. No doubt. Actually, the first time I saw them was here, Warped Tour back in 98, I guess it was.
Moe:
But going back, going back to you guys' album. You guys were, what, number 11 in the best new artist on Billboard charts. Congratulations with that, by the way.
Chris:
Thank you. I saw it, but I don't even know what that means.
Moe:
Best new artist. How's that, how's it possible? You guys, what, 10 years, with the hiatus, of course. But, I mean, how does that, how does that work?
Chris:
I have no idea. So that's, somebody else comes up with some shit, and it's, like, we have no idea. Really, none of us ever pay attention.
Dustin:
Yeah, none of us care.
Chris:
All of that means absolutely nothing. Right. Yeah, there's not some kid that's gonna be, like, well, these guys were number 11 best new artists, I have to go check them out now. That's not gonna happen. Yeah, it's gonna be some shitty old dude who has no idea, clue, what we're doing. He's, like, oh, another number 11 best new artist. Let's put him on this dumb tour. That's probably what's gonna happen. Like, that's just for, like, people who think they know what's going on, but they really don't know what's going on.
Moe:
Yeah, and all the kids that know what's going on are doing something completely different.
Chris:
I hear ya. I hear that.
Moe:
Yeah, so, how have you guys come up with your distinctive sound? I mean, you guys definitely have a distinctive sound. You guys pretty much, it's what, followed more of a straight, a straight path with, with your music, music-wise. I mean, to distinguish yourselves, besides the EP, the acoustic EP. So, uh, how'd you just establish your sound? I mean, what sets you, what sets you apart, put it that way.
Chris:
I wouldn't know. We just, our sound is just, like, the five of us, like, everything that we like.
Dustin:
Yeah, it's not really...
Chris:
We don't think about what we sound as a whole.
Dustin:
Yeah, I would say there's definitely parts, like, when we're working on songs, to remember songs, we go by, like, obviously we're influenced by different bands.
Chris:
Yeah, so we'll be, like, oh, that song that has the Metallica part, you know. And to us, it, like, has a Metallica part in it, and a Slayer part, or a Madball part, right? Whoever, whoever has influenced that particular song. So we hear, like, I personally hear those influences when I hear a song. I'm, like, oh, this is, this is, like, a Madball part into a Metallica part.
Moe:
Are you a big Metallica fan?
Chris:
Yeah.
Moe:
Have you seen them live, this past, ever see Metallica live, really?
Chris:
It's my first show ever, in 1989.
Moe:
No shit.
Chris:
Little Sports Arena. What do you remember? What part of that show do you remember? I was scared out of my ass, in the pit, at, like, ten years old. I was up against, up against the front, like, the gate came up to, like, almost my neck. And my older brother dragged me to the show, even though I wanted to go really bad. And I just remember, we missed the opening act. We snuck into the show, because we knew, like, the janitor there or something. And we snuck into the show, got, like, snuck away front row, because it was, like, general admission. It's an arena. I just remember them opening up with Blackened, and it was, like, the scariest thing I've ever seen. And they were amazing. That was when they were phenomenal.
Dustin:
They're back at it, though. Yeah, they're gonna be great.
Chris:
I mean, they're, like, one of the greatest metal bands ever.
Dustin:
Yeah, they wrote four perfect metal records that nobody will ever be able to top. Yeah, ever.
Moe:
How's the new stuff?
Chris:
I'm not gonna comment on that.
Moe:
Yeah, I hear you.
Moe:
Okay. How's your reception been, when you guys are playing the new songs?
Chris:
I would say, for the most part, pretty good so far. We really haven't, we've only been able to play them since the record came out, on this tour. We played them over, like, in Indonesia and stuff.
Moe:
It's my country right there.
Chris:
They've been going over well, but it's weird. It's definitely different from a festival setting to, like, a club show, right?
Moe:
I don't understand why people get bitchy when bands decide to, you know, try out, play the new songs. I mean, of course, when you hear the old favorites. But what's, what's with people getting bitchy with that?
Chris:
Because people are stupid.
Dustin:
People are just fucking stupid.
Moe:
So, what's, what do you guys think the evolution of your scene has been, since early days? It's been 10 years, I guess. So that's, what, 98? I mean, we've seen everything from the emo phase, pop punk, you know, all that. What do you guys, with your scene in particular, what have you seen as the biggest changes within the scene?
Chris:
More media attention, I would say, is the most. Way more corporate now than it's ever been, which is scary. Just, like, large corporations, all they do is take something cool, and suck it until it's dry. There's nothing left in it. But luckily, like, us coming from hardcore, I think there's always gonna be kids doing shows in, like, VFW halls. There's always gonna be, like, the, you know, the hardcore bands. So I think there'll always be something left of this. But, I mean, emo, if you ever, whatever the hell you want to call it. Yeah, you know, that, back in our day, was, that was, like, a bunch of hardcore kids that wanted to play rock and roll. I mean, look at, like, Get Up Kids and all those bands. And those, if you went to those shows, which we all did, they were all hardcore kids going to see them. You know, I mean, the media took it and sucked it up, and marketed it into some bastardized, hard thing. Yeah, and now there's, there's nothing left of that. There's nothing. If you go check it out, who really, like, get the fuck out of here.
“And the next thing you know, like, that kid just, like, digs backwards, and finds them, finds hardcore, through, like, Hot Topic or something like that.”
Walls of Jericho
Moe:
So, he's talking about the bastardizing. I mean, it's almost impossible to ignore the fact that Hot Topic and, you know, other manufactured forms of metal, punk, like that. How's that affecting the scene?
Chris:
It's weird, because it affects it, like, it affects it in a positive way, I would say, and in a negative way. Because it does that, what we talked about, like, with what happened with the emo, and, right, it just overexposes everything. And then the whole scene becomes, like, everybody plays in a band. Everybody, there's so many bands on tour, and then it all, it turns into a huge competition, where before, it was, like, it wasn't a competition, because there wasn't that many bands on tour. Like, not everybody could go on tour. You know, and now, everybody's capable of doing it. But the positive side of that is, because of things like Hot Topic carrying our record, right, there's, like, or whoever's record, you know, there's the chance that a kid who has no idea, anything about hardcore, or anything about punk, or anything, wanders into Hot Topic, because he's, like, a Disturbed fan. Yeah, and then he goes to the listening station, and he, he listens to, like, I don't know, and then he hears that, and it just blows his mind. And the next thing you know, like, that kid just, like, digs backwards, and finds them, finds hardcore, through, like, Hot Topic or something like that. Whereas when we were younger, you could, there was nothing like that. Like, the internet, the internet didn't...
Chris:
Yeah, I used to have to call, I would call a hotline.
Moe:
How old are you guys, by the way? Around 30-something?
Highlight
Chris:
Okay, so, my age... I would, I used to call a hotline, and listen to some dude who had, like, a, boy, like, not even a voicemail, an answering machine. It would be, like, Thursday, August 22nd, 25 to Life. And, like, he would, like, tell the shows on the thing. And, like, I couldn't fucking MapQuest shit to fucking find the venue. I had to, like, figure shit out. And, like, I'd read thank-you lists, and I put in work to, like, into the shit I love. Because I loved that nobody knew what the fuck it was. I liked to go into the show, and there was 25 kids that knew it. And I liked being the only kid that knew the words. So, like, you lead a scene, then. I was much, I was into that shit when I was, like, 15, 16 years old. And now, it was, it was hard to get into it. And the reason why it was hard is because it wasn't accessible, right. Hot Topic and shit like that, and, like, the internet, allows that shit to be accessible. And I had to put in stupid amounts of work to get to the point where I am now. And the fact that we can inspire somebody to do the same thing, it's cool. And Hot Topic gives somebody the opportunity to find it easier.
Moe:
And so you're cool with them?
Chris:
Yeah, because they could pretty much, a kid can go into Hot Topic, and, like, find hardcore, find punk, and backwards, and really figure out what it's about, like, quicker, and not have to put in years of work. But then that kid could go on and start a band, and be the most influential band of, like, 20 years.
Dustin:
Yeah, and he never would have found it, if it wasn't, right.
Moe:
Yeah, there's certain bands that stick out in Hot Topic, like, for say, Slipknot, who, Corey Taylor produced your EP, correct?
Chris:
Yep.
Moe:
Yeah, so how was it working with him?
Chris:
Yeah, he's a good dude. Super good.
Moe:
So, you guys ever think about putting the masks on, and joining them on stage, or what?
Chris:
There's shit, would you wear his mask, really?
Moe:
So, if you guys could create your own mask, to join them on stage...
Highlight
Chris:
I would make my mask look like Corey's real face. And then I would come out, and I would act like a dick. I would be, I would be a butthead, like...
Moe:
Was that a Living Colour? They spoofed the Coneheads on Saturday Night Live, and they...
Chris:
I would just be a butthead. I just walk out, and have a big butt on my head. Maybe some corpse paint. That'd be kind of cool.
Moe:
I'm sure it was, I mean, it was different for people to hear Candace sing. They know, more melodic. I guess that's where she's on every record.
Chris:
Yeah, I know, but it's just, a straight through.
Moe:
So, when, after coming off of a slower, you know, slow record like that, do you feel almost obligated to bring the, bring the heat with a new album, bring the extra energy?
Chris:
It was just something that we just wanted to do, just because we wanted to do it. Yeah, we've always wanted to do something acoustic, right? And, you know, Corey expressed the interest, and we're just, like, might as well just go and do it.
Dustin:
Yeah.
Chris:
Made the time to go and do it, because it was just something that we've never done. And we don't necessarily follow any guidelines of what our band needs to do. Yeah, yeah, it's, like, we kind of want to do acoustic real quick, so let's see if we can write some songs.
Moe:
That's cool.
Chris:
We wrote this new record, we were just, like, it's a Walls of Jericho record. Like, we can go out and write a Walls of Jericho record.
Dustin:
Yeah.
Moe:
Have you guys ever considered having the Fozzy frontman, aka the WWE wrestler?
Moe:
Had to ask. My old band played a festival in Baltimore with them eight years ago, and I was, like, I have a dude... Stuck Mojo, right, the backing band, wasn't it?
Chris:
I have no idea. I don't know shit about that. I know about wrestling, if I brought my nephew to see a WrestleMania something or other in Detroit, and it was awesome. I didn't care about anything wrestling, but when they come down to the ring, it's fucking sweet. Undertaker came out, and there was, like, torches and fire, and I was so far away, and I was, like, a Pantera...
Moe:
Why don't you guys start your concerts off like that?
Chris:
I mean, we could, if we had some money.
Moe:
Yeah, I guess that's, like, a lot of money. It was, like, two million for pyro.
Chris:
Yeah, that's true.
Moe:
So, since, since the scene has changed so much in the past ten years, what do you see as its, its future? I mean, the future of the scene.
Chris:
It's tough. I think, no matter what, it's gonna always be the same. There's always gonna be, there's always gonna be the bands that do, I'd say, what we do, like, have the opportunities to, like, crossover, I guess, whatever that means, you know, like, get to play, get to play in front of, like, Disturbed kids and Slipknot. And there's always gonna be VFW halls and basement shows and stuff. When I'm at home, I have friends that play in those bands that, like, go play in a basement somewhere in some city you've never heard of, and they call me up, and go, like, hey, we're driving three hours, you want to come with, come with us? We'll go hang out in a basement, and play a show. And I still go do that shit.
Moe:
There you go.
Chris:
And that shit's still gonna go on. Detroit scene's so good.
Dustin:
Depends on what scene you're talking about. Yeah, it depends. It's five million scenes.
Chris:
That's the answer. It's, like, a lot of the scene now, like, especially with us, I would say, gets split, where we have, there's hardcore kids who will say, like, oh, they're too metal now. They don't, they don't like, it's, like, I haven't changed our sound.
Dustin:
Yeah.
Chris:
And then there's metal dudes that'll be, like, oh, they jump when they play, they're too hardcore. I can't... That's happened. A dude came up to us, and was, like, yo, you guys need to not jump, because you guys look like a punk band. We're just, like, all right, dude. Thanks.
“They can go anywhere in the world, play to hundreds, if not thousands, of kids, because they've been around that long, and they continually put out the good records.”
Walls of Jericho
Dustin:
Yeah, thanks for telling us what to do.
Chris:
Yeah, like, a metal dude, just pissed, because we were playing a metal show, and we decided to jump. I don't know. We just do whatever the fuck we want to do.
Dustin:
Yeah, if you think we're too metal, or too hardcore, then you're an idiot.
Moe:
No more jumping.
Chris:
No, we're jumping.
Moe:
Finally. I was gonna say, what, with the progression you've seen with your band, what do you want to see from your band in the future? What's your, what are your goals down the road? I mean, I know you guys just, you probably, immediate goals, of course, would be put out your new album, and then tour to support it.
Chris:
I think, with us, it's just, like, as long as we keep putting out records, as long as people, you know, like it, and as long as we keep progressing forward, and not digressing, we think we will always be happy with where we're at, no matter where we're at.
Moe:
Gotcha.
Chris:
We don't, we don't necessarily have a goal of, like, dude, we gotta sell, like, 200,000 records, bro, or it's over. We don't, we don't think like that. We don't care. We've been a band for 10 years, like, you know, it's just, as long as we're moving forward.
Dustin:
Yeah, we've been a, we've been around for long enough that, like, we were around when SoundScan didn't matter, and we'll exist...
Chris:
Yeah, like, we didn't fucking, we didn't do that shit. We didn't fill shit out. We don't, we don't care, as long as kids come to the show.
Dustin:
Yeah, that's all that matters. Like, and it doesn't even matter how many kids come to the show. If 25 kids are at the show, and 25 kids are excited, they can make the show amazing. Or if, fucking, I don't know how many people are just fucking here. But, yeah, if, like, thousands of people are at the show, and they're all into it, and, like, circle pit and stuff, it's, like, equally as amazing, on, like, a whole different vibe. And as long as people are into it, we'll always be into it.
Moe:
Yeah, that's good to hear, man. Because I've, I mean, over this time, over the years, I've seen so many, the scene's changing so much, and it's, I don't know. I think, I think the music scene as a whole is on the way back up. Like, I think, back in the late 90s, I think it was pretty damn good. I think it dipped a bit in the early 2000s. I think it's definitely on the way back up.
Chris:
Yeah, yeah. The bands that, Sick of It All, through all this crap, they're the ones that are gonna be benefiting. Yeah, Sick of It All, they've been around for 20 years. Yeah, they've gone through all the same highs and lows that we've gone through, only being together for 10 years, and they definitely reap the benefits of that. They can go anywhere in the world, play to hundreds, if not thousands, of kids, because they've been around that long, and they continually put out the good records.
Moe:
Well, people like that, who do you guys think are, like, H2O, Rancid, what do you guys...
Chris:
Yeah. We listen to it in the RV all the time.
Dustin:
Yeah, it's a great record.
Chris:
We're huge fans of Sick of It All, of Madball, all of the bands that we all grew up on, you know. Like, I think...
Dustin:
Your, his first show was a Madball show.
Chris:
Yeah, my first hardcore show was a Sick of It All show, you know. 15 years ago. If it wasn't for, like, that, and Madball, and all those, all those kind of bands, then I don't know what the fuck I'd be doing. Like, somebody got, like, Metallica's and Megadeth's, you know, Biohazard's, and stuff like that. What happened to them?
Dustin:
Biohazard? Yeah, I don't know. Evan does porn now, is that what it is?
Chris:
If I had that opportunity... Do what you gotta do.
Moe:
Guys, thanks a lot. Appreciate it.
Chris:
Yeah.
Moe:
Do me a favor, introduce yourselves, and this is Moe Train's Tracks, if you just do, do an ID.
Chris:
Moe Train's Tracks.
Moe:
That's it. Yeah.
Dustin:
This is Dustin.
Chris:
And this is Chris, from Walls of Jericho.
Moe:
Moe Train's Tracks. What song from your album...
Chris:
Yeah, what's on, what's your call, I guess. Play, you should play... You choose whatever you want.
Chris:
No, no, we should say something before. Somebody said that our song... So, our radio guy at the Syndicate is a great dude, told us that, that people were, like, our, everything goes to metal radio on Monday. And he was telling us how some people won't play The American Dream, because it's an anti-American song. Which, it's not even close to being an anti-American song at all.
Dustin:
Yeah, so this song is not anti-American.
Highlight
Chris:
It's definitely, where we live, everything is dying, really fast. The auto industry pretty much holds the whole entire area, and everybody's getting laid off, and everyone's having to, like, leave their lives behind, and leave this city. And the song is about giving up on your hometown, because there's nothing left there to love anymore. So it's not anti-American. It's just realizing that what once was the American dream does not technically fit anymore, in our area. And sometimes you gotta say fuck it, and move. So this song is called The American Dream.
